This is such an important conversation. How we interpret Scripture around sexuality has enormous consequences—not just theologically, but in how human dignity is either protected or diminished. Bad theology in this area has wounded a lot of people and in our day we are seeing what happens when the chickens come home to roost. Keep wrestling!
This is facinating. I do want to know if christian women who were forced into brothels by their pagan suitors or families in retaliation were made to do penance in church or not tho. I think that would be the real test of the early church's attitude toward this subject. I only know of the specifics of stories like St Lucy, St Philomena, St Agatha but it is clear from the context of those stories that many women did not die as a result of their persecution and may only ha e been abandoned in a brothel.
That’s a great question! I don’t know that we have sources on that. (If anyone finds one, please point me to it!)
But by the time we get that far into the development of the church, I think we see a number of the attitudes that don’t reflect Paul’s attitude, so we have to be careful about projecting back, in any case.
Lucy was a rich Christian woman of Sicily who refused marriage and gave her money to the poor. Her rejected suitor (a pagan fellow her mother had betrothed her to) denounced Lucy to the authorities during the Diocletian persecution.
The Governor of Syracuse ordered Lucy to burn a sacrifice to the emperor’s image. When she refused, the Governor sentenced her to be defiled in a brothel. Christian tradition states that when the guards came to take her away, they could not move her even when they hitched her to a team of oxen. Bundles of wood were then heaped about her and set on fire, but would not burn. Finally, she met her death by the sword in 304 AD.
A later legend says that Lucy’s eyes were gouged out as part of the persecution but were miraculously restored at her death.
While this was after Paul’s time, St Patrick was absolutely incensed when Coroticus and co. carried off some Irish Christian converts into slavery. And if I remember correctly (my books are in storage 😩), Patrick was especially worried about the women. Which makes total sense in light of this.
Interesting discussion. It seems Romans viewed honor as not a character judgement but through a purity lens. If I fling mud at you, you are dirty, even if you didn't deserve to be.
Well, we can’t read our modern-day notions of consent back into the ancient world. The ancients asked fundamentally different questions about sex than we do. Exploring this context will tell us about the cultural water that Paul swam in. From there, we’ll be better positioned to interpret what he says in 1 Corinthians.
So good, so true. This was great and I can't wait for the next one.
RE: Why is the letter to Philemon in the Bible? Thank you for your exposition. I am also struck by Paul's emphasis that he is himself in prison for the sake of the Gospel, a reminder which should evoke sympathy from Philemon, and perhaps make him more inclined to free Onesimus, his newly converted slave. Paul does not spell out a comparison between himself and Onesimus, but leaves it to Philemon (and perhaps the other members of the housechurch) to make the link for himself.
Yes, the thesis that the ancients couldn't distinguish between consensual sex and rape is definitely implausible - any culture which has the concept of voluntary and coerced actions at all can distinguish between them. And the Romans certainly were aware that women do have a will of their own.
Obviously, the importance given to consent in sex can vary, with some moralities emphasising other things, like honor and social hierarchy. If consent is less important in the first place, you're less likely to think about whether various dub-con situations count as rape, or don't. But it's certainly ridiculous to claim that they didn't have the concept at all, and would have stared at you with popped-out eyes the moment you'd ask: "but did they want it?"
Thank you for this post and for the careful work you are doing on this topic! I’m so glad I noticed it on my feed. I’ve subscribed and will be reading the rest of this series with interest.
Sexual coercion is a massive part of domestic abuse. I’ve been writing on domestic abuse in a Christian context for decades. Most of my work is at https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/ which began years before Substack had been invented.
I love reading your work!! Refreshing writing style as always, and the topic alone is what hooked me in. I'm so looking forward to reading the rest of the series
Hey there, great topic! I'll be eagerly awaiting the rest of your series.
I wondered similar questions when I wrote my MA thesis, "Re-delineating Paul's boundaries of porneia in the early church via the sexually available bodies of first-century slaves"
You and I cover many of the same topics: honor, agency, consent, Roman and Jewish understandings of power, the theater, historical sources, the church at Corinth, and for me specifically Paul's letter to Philemon and how he wrote about slavery.
This is such an important conversation. How we interpret Scripture around sexuality has enormous consequences—not just theologically, but in how human dignity is either protected or diminished. Bad theology in this area has wounded a lot of people and in our day we are seeing what happens when the chickens come home to roost. Keep wrestling!
Yes, careful, theologically coherent interpretation here is so, so important.
This is facinating. I do want to know if christian women who were forced into brothels by their pagan suitors or families in retaliation were made to do penance in church or not tho. I think that would be the real test of the early church's attitude toward this subject. I only know of the specifics of stories like St Lucy, St Philomena, St Agatha but it is clear from the context of those stories that many women did not die as a result of their persecution and may only ha e been abandoned in a brothel.
That’s a great question! I don’t know that we have sources on that. (If anyone finds one, please point me to it!)
But by the time we get that far into the development of the church, I think we see a number of the attitudes that don’t reflect Paul’s attitude, so we have to be careful about projecting back, in any case.
Lorenzo Lotto’s painting of St Lucy warning the governor is the banner image at my blog.
https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2013/12/02/our-new-banner-saint-lucy-warning-the-judge/
Lucy was a rich Christian woman of Sicily who refused marriage and gave her money to the poor. Her rejected suitor (a pagan fellow her mother had betrothed her to) denounced Lucy to the authorities during the Diocletian persecution.
The Governor of Syracuse ordered Lucy to burn a sacrifice to the emperor’s image. When she refused, the Governor sentenced her to be defiled in a brothel. Christian tradition states that when the guards came to take her away, they could not move her even when they hitched her to a team of oxen. Bundles of wood were then heaped about her and set on fire, but would not burn. Finally, she met her death by the sword in 304 AD.
A later legend says that Lucy’s eyes were gouged out as part of the persecution but were miraculously restored at her death.
While this was after Paul’s time, St Patrick was absolutely incensed when Coroticus and co. carried off some Irish Christian converts into slavery. And if I remember correctly (my books are in storage 😩), Patrick was especially worried about the women. Which makes total sense in light of this.
Yes, I know of no slave system where the sexual exploitation of women was not a significant feature.
Interesting discussion. It seems Romans viewed honor as not a character judgement but through a purity lens. If I fling mud at you, you are dirty, even if you didn't deserve to be.
Not a good concept to build a society around.
100%. Not a world any of us would want to live in!
Well, we can’t read our modern-day notions of consent back into the ancient world. The ancients asked fundamentally different questions about sex than we do. Exploring this context will tell us about the cultural water that Paul swam in. From there, we’ll be better positioned to interpret what he says in 1 Corinthians.
So good, so true. This was great and I can't wait for the next one.
Thank you! I’m so glad to hear it!
RE: Why is the letter to Philemon in the Bible? Thank you for your exposition. I am also struck by Paul's emphasis that he is himself in prison for the sake of the Gospel, a reminder which should evoke sympathy from Philemon, and perhaps make him more inclined to free Onesimus, his newly converted slave. Paul does not spell out a comparison between himself and Onesimus, but leaves it to Philemon (and perhaps the other members of the housechurch) to make the link for himself.
Yes, the thesis that the ancients couldn't distinguish between consensual sex and rape is definitely implausible - any culture which has the concept of voluntary and coerced actions at all can distinguish between them. And the Romans certainly were aware that women do have a will of their own.
Obviously, the importance given to consent in sex can vary, with some moralities emphasising other things, like honor and social hierarchy. If consent is less important in the first place, you're less likely to think about whether various dub-con situations count as rape, or don't. But it's certainly ridiculous to claim that they didn't have the concept at all, and would have stared at you with popped-out eyes the moment you'd ask: "but did they want it?"
Thank you for this post and for the careful work you are doing on this topic! I’m so glad I noticed it on my feed. I’ve subscribed and will be reading the rest of this series with interest.
Sexual coercion is a massive part of domestic abuse. I’ve been writing on domestic abuse in a Christian context for decades. Most of my work is at https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/ which began years before Substack had been invented.
Mmm. That’s such important work!
I love reading your work!! Refreshing writing style as always, and the topic alone is what hooked me in. I'm so looking forward to reading the rest of the series
Awww, thank you!!
OK this is great work. Time to start charging for your posts, or compiling a book.
Paid subscriptions are turned on—people can pay me to write if they want! (And three people do want.) 😂
Hey there, great topic! I'll be eagerly awaiting the rest of your series.
I wondered similar questions when I wrote my MA thesis, "Re-delineating Paul's boundaries of porneia in the early church via the sexually available bodies of first-century slaves"
You and I cover many of the same topics: honor, agency, consent, Roman and Jewish understandings of power, the theater, historical sources, the church at Corinth, and for me specifically Paul's letter to Philemon and how he wrote about slavery.
I hope you'll keep this conversation going!
http://hdl.handle.net/10355/15369
I think you may have commented on the wrong post.