I love how Paul ostensibly upholds societal values, while he sneaks in some dynamitic overturning of them for anyone who is wise to grasp it. It goes under your radar, until you're already changed by the message.
It's very in line with the Hebrew Bible and Jesus' teaching style. "Let the reader understand."
“Paul addresses the least powerful first” — I’m musing on how there may be a parallel in Genesis 3 where God delivered three pronouncements resulting from the fall.
First He addressed the serpent, pronouncing the consequences that would fall on the serpent; then He addressed Eve, pronouncing the consequences she would experience, and lastly He addressed Adam telling him the consequences he would experience.
If the order (serpent, Eve, Adam) indicates the least powerful first and the most powerful last, that may help us have a deeper understanding of Gen 3 and theological gender anthropology.
Oh, that's really interesting! I'll have to muse on it more.
The thing that feels like a sticking point for me is that the serpent is first...serpent is an embodiment of chaos. The ancients would think of chaos as more powerful than human beings—which is one of the reasons it's important that God is the one to drive back chaos! The order there might also be accounted for by the order of the story—serpent tempts, woman eats, man eats.
But it's a fascinating idea, and I'd be interested in considering it more if you ever decide to write on it in more detail.
I agree that the ancients would think of chaos as more powerful than human beings. But when human beings have faith in God, grounding their faith in the promised Seed/Redeemer (Genesis 3:15), they can be more powerful than chaos — because God (Father Son and Holy Spirit) is more powerful than chaos.
“The order there might also be accounted for by the order of the story—serpent tempts, woman eats, man eats.” Yes; and both readings of the order might be valid concurrently. Scripture often conveys/ reverberates multiple truths in one narrative.
I'm knee deep in 1 Corinthians 11 at the moment and am NOT feeling the love for our friend Paul. On the plus side, Ephesians suddenly feels much lighter!
Catherine, great research. I can understand how this article was a lot of work so thank you. I like the comparison/contrast with Paul and contemporaries and near contemporaries. Many make Paul’s letters something their not for lack of context. When set in his contexts (Jewish, Hellenistic, Roman), his writing makes far more sense and is more impactful. Thanks again!
New here. I would like to read Part 1 and Part 2 first, but when I click the links to go to Week 1, it just links me to your profile, not the article. Can you please assist? 😀
I mean the telling part is not going in the complete opposite direction. Most lies aren’t the opposite of the truth so much as orthogonal or disproportionate.
Hierarchy is inevitable, especially in the fallen state, and the key difference is the spirit in which things are done. As an aside we should all want hierarchy provided we want things to actually work, it involves recognizing that someone has an excellence we do not. Envy is the great unwarned of sin of the current era I think, the desire to deprive others cloaked most often in “fairness”.
Hierarchy is inevitable in some areas, certainly. But the Romans had a whole lot of unnecessary hierarchy, and some of those categories we've since eliminated altogether, like enslaver/enslaved and patron/client.
I mean patron client is alive and well throughout our entire political system but I take your point. I do think we tie ourselves in knots due to hierarchy being abused that we then try to define it out of existence.
“The facts of life include that men have greater muscle strength than women and men don't have babies. So when people choose to disobey God and put themselves first, men generally end up ruling over women. That's Genesis 3. But God's original design in Genesis 1 was not male rule. It was co-rule.”
“Having called all believers to mutual submission in verse 21, why does Paul go on to say what he does in verses 22 to 24, specifically reminding wives to submit to their husbands? Probably some Christian wives in Ephesus thought that their newfound equality with their husbands in Christ gave them a reason not to place themselves lower and not to treat their husbands with respect. Paul reminds them to place themselves lower and to respect their husbands in reverence for Christ. This is Christian behavior which all Christians should be doing.
“In this passage, Paul uses a head metaphor to help explain how the husband should behave towards his wife. It's not a metaphor of lordship. Verse 23 indicates it's what we would call saviorhoood. He's thinking, "What does a head do if it's attached to a body? It nurtures it and cares for it." His head and body metaphor draws on a conventional idea of the head nourishing the body. As Christ with self-sacrificial love nourishes his people to whom he is joined (Ephesians 4), so the husband is called to self-sacrificial love, nourishing and caring for his wife with whom he is joined as one flesh (Ephesians 5:25-33a). I think Paul is here applying the principle laid down by Jesus. “From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded. And from the one who's been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.” (Luke 12:48). Husbands have greater physical strength and they have social advantages. So they carry a heightened responsibility of self-sacrificial love and service towards their wives. That's their headship.
“Peter's teaching is consistent with Paul’s. In 1 Peter 3, Peter instructs husbands to treat their wives humbly and considerately, and to give them honor as co-heirs of God's gracious gift of new life.”
I love how Paul ostensibly upholds societal values, while he sneaks in some dynamitic overturning of them for anyone who is wise to grasp it. It goes under your radar, until you're already changed by the message.
It's very in line with the Hebrew Bible and Jesus' teaching style. "Let the reader understand."
Good point comparing Aristotle’s audience to Paul’s.
“Paul addresses the least powerful first” — I’m musing on how there may be a parallel in Genesis 3 where God delivered three pronouncements resulting from the fall.
First He addressed the serpent, pronouncing the consequences that would fall on the serpent; then He addressed Eve, pronouncing the consequences she would experience, and lastly He addressed Adam telling him the consequences he would experience.
If the order (serpent, Eve, Adam) indicates the least powerful first and the most powerful last, that may help us have a deeper understanding of Gen 3 and theological gender anthropology.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this!
Oh, that's really interesting! I'll have to muse on it more.
The thing that feels like a sticking point for me is that the serpent is first...serpent is an embodiment of chaos. The ancients would think of chaos as more powerful than human beings—which is one of the reasons it's important that God is the one to drive back chaos! The order there might also be accounted for by the order of the story—serpent tempts, woman eats, man eats.
But it's a fascinating idea, and I'd be interested in considering it more if you ever decide to write on it in more detail.
I agree that the ancients would think of chaos as more powerful than human beings. But when human beings have faith in God, grounding their faith in the promised Seed/Redeemer (Genesis 3:15), they can be more powerful than chaos — because God (Father Son and Holy Spirit) is more powerful than chaos.
“The order there might also be accounted for by the order of the story—serpent tempts, woman eats, man eats.” Yes; and both readings of the order might be valid concurrently. Scripture often conveys/ reverberates multiple truths in one narrative.
I'm knee deep in 1 Corinthians 11 at the moment and am NOT feeling the love for our friend Paul. On the plus side, Ephesians suddenly feels much lighter!
Great article! Also I feel “Paul Versus Everybody Else” needs to be a book 😂
Brb, gonna go drop that in my ideas folder.
Catherine, great research. I can understand how this article was a lot of work so thank you. I like the comparison/contrast with Paul and contemporaries and near contemporaries. Many make Paul’s letters something their not for lack of context. When set in his contexts (Jewish, Hellenistic, Roman), his writing makes far more sense and is more impactful. Thanks again!
New here. I would like to read Part 1 and Part 2 first, but when I click the links to go to Week 1, it just links me to your profile, not the article. Can you please assist? 😀
Oh no! The links work for me…does this work for you? https://catherinejonespayne.substack.com/p/submissive-wives-obedient-children?r=2lmy6&utm_medium=ios
https://catherinejonespayne.substack.com/p/focus-on-the-roman-jewish-and-greek?r=2lmy6&utm_medium=ios
Yes! These links are taking me there. Thank you. Look fwd to reading.
Thanks for this!
I mean the telling part is not going in the complete opposite direction. Most lies aren’t the opposite of the truth so much as orthogonal or disproportionate.
Hierarchy is inevitable, especially in the fallen state, and the key difference is the spirit in which things are done. As an aside we should all want hierarchy provided we want things to actually work, it involves recognizing that someone has an excellence we do not. Envy is the great unwarned of sin of the current era I think, the desire to deprive others cloaked most often in “fairness”.
Hierarchy is inevitable in some areas, certainly. But the Romans had a whole lot of unnecessary hierarchy, and some of those categories we've since eliminated altogether, like enslaver/enslaved and patron/client.
I mean patron client is alive and well throughout our entire political system but I take your point. I do think we tie ourselves in knots due to hierarchy being abused that we then try to define it out of existence.
Great insights!
Thank you!
Hi Catherine, you may have watched this already but in case you haven’t…
Andrew Bartlett, CBE. Finding the big points: What really matters in the biblical equality debate.
https://youtu.be/g3btdgajxC0?si=AkT8wJQov3xwHL_Q&t=740
At 12:20 he discusses Genesis 3—
“The facts of life include that men have greater muscle strength than women and men don't have babies. So when people choose to disobey God and put themselves first, men generally end up ruling over women. That's Genesis 3. But God's original design in Genesis 1 was not male rule. It was co-rule.”
18:01 Ephesians 5
https://youtu.be/g3btdgajxC0?si=OQwuQN-kiClkJjsc&t=1081
“Having called all believers to mutual submission in verse 21, why does Paul go on to say what he does in verses 22 to 24, specifically reminding wives to submit to their husbands? Probably some Christian wives in Ephesus thought that their newfound equality with their husbands in Christ gave them a reason not to place themselves lower and not to treat their husbands with respect. Paul reminds them to place themselves lower and to respect their husbands in reverence for Christ. This is Christian behavior which all Christians should be doing.
“In this passage, Paul uses a head metaphor to help explain how the husband should behave towards his wife. It's not a metaphor of lordship. Verse 23 indicates it's what we would call saviorhoood. He's thinking, "What does a head do if it's attached to a body? It nurtures it and cares for it." His head and body metaphor draws on a conventional idea of the head nourishing the body. As Christ with self-sacrificial love nourishes his people to whom he is joined (Ephesians 4), so the husband is called to self-sacrificial love, nourishing and caring for his wife with whom he is joined as one flesh (Ephesians 5:25-33a). I think Paul is here applying the principle laid down by Jesus. “From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded. And from the one who's been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.” (Luke 12:48). Husbands have greater physical strength and they have social advantages. So they carry a heightened responsibility of self-sacrificial love and service towards their wives. That's their headship.
“Peter's teaching is consistent with Paul’s. In 1 Peter 3, Peter instructs husbands to treat their wives humbly and considerately, and to give them honor as co-heirs of God's gracious gift of new life.”